Sunday, March 26, 2006

This page discusses the following topics:

Is there a, "God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit"?

How many divine beings?

Are they equal?

How many Holy Spirits are there?

Is Jesus the son of the Father, or the Holy Spirit?

Who is our intercessor? How many ?

Who is our mediator? How many

Is the Holy Spirit "He", or "It"

Reasons the Holy Spirit is not a being:

Baptize in whose name?


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Is there: God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit?


God the Father:

There are many references with this. Below are a few.

John 6.27

Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

1 Corinthians 8.6

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Galatians 1.1

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

God the Son:

No such references found in the Bible, but many were found referring to the Son of God:

Daniel 3.25

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Matthew 16.16

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 27.54

Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mark 1.1

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Luke 1.35

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 20.31

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

God the Spirit:

Not a single reference to “God the Spirit” could be found, but there are many to the Spirit of God, God’s Spirit etc.

Genesis 1.2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Numbers 11.29

And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put His spirit upon them!

2Chronicles 15.1

And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:

Micah 2.7

O thou that art named the house of Jacob, is the spirit of the LORD straitened? are these his doings? do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?

Matthew 12.28

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Romans 8.14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1 Thessalonians 4.8

He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

How many divine beings?

Proverbs 30.4

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Zechariah 6.13

Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Matthew 11.27

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 8.16
And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 8.17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 8.18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Now here is the law that Jesus is making reference to:

Deuteronomy 19.15
... at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

If there were three witnesses would He not have strengthened His case to have made reference to the three instead of just the two?

John 10.30

I and my Father are one.

John 15.23

He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 15.24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

John16.3

And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

John 17.3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 1.3

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 8.6

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Timothy 2.5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

2 John 1:3

Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

2 John 1.9

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

John 17:3 summarizes it well, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

If there were three divine beings, don’t you think that instead of saying “God and Jesus” and “both”, that it would have mentioned THREE beings?

What is the relationship between God the Father & the Son?

Are they equal?

John 3.16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 3.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3.35

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 5.19

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5.20

For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and he will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 5.21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 5.22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 5.23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 5.24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5.26

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 5.27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5.30

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 8.28

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 8.29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 8.42

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 12.49

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak

John 14.28

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 Corinthians 15.28

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

For a much larger list on this subject click here: http://godsent.blogspot.com/

In summary: Jesus said, “my Father is Greater than I”, given life to the Son, has “taught me”, and “Sent Me”

God of Jesus:

John 20.17

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

2 Corinthians 11.31

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Ephesians 1.3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 1.17

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

1 Peter 1.3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Hebrews 1.9

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows

Jesus Begotten:

Psalms 2.7

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Proverbs 8.22

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 8.23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 8.24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

John 1.14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1.18

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3.16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 3.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 3.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 13.33

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1.5

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5.5

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

1John 4.9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Right hand of God

Mark 16.19

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luke 22.69

Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

Acts 2.33

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 5.31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 7.55

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 7.56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Acts 8.34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Colossians 3.1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Hebrews 8.1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews 10.12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 12.2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Peter 3.22

Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

This may not be so profound, but this shows relationship as well as the number of members of the Godhead

Who is the Holy Spirit?

Spirit of God

Exodus31.3

And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Judges 6.34

But the spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

Ephesians 4.30

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Spirit of Jesus:

1Cor 15.45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit

Galatians 4.6

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 1.19

For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

1Peter 1.11

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

How many Holy Spirits are there?

1 Corinthians 12.4

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12.13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 2.18

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 4.4

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Romans 8.9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The one Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and of Jesus

Is Jesus the son of the Father, or the Holy Spirit?

Luke1.35

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

If we are to believe that the Holy Spirit is a being, then Jesus was lying when he said that God the Father is his father, since Mary got pregnant by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, so the Father, by his Spirit impregnated Mary

Who is our intercessor? How many intercessors?

Isaiah 53.12

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Romans 8.26

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 8.27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8.34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Hebrews 7.25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Who is our mediator? How many mediators?

1 Timothy 2.5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 8.6

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 9.14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

9.15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 12.24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

What are the definitions of intercessor & mediator?

Notice their synonyms

Mediator

n : a negotiator who acts as a link between parties [syn: go-between, intermediator, intermediary, intercessor]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

intercessor

n : a negotiator who acts as a link between parties [syn: mediator, go-between, intermediator, intermediary]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Our Intercessor and Mediator are one and the same, Jesus!

Reasons the Holy Spirit is not a being:

Spirit poured

Proverbs 1.23

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Isaiah 32.15

Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.

Isaiah 44.3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Ezekiel 39.29

Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Joel 2.28

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 2.29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Acts 2.17

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 2.18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Titus 3.5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3.6 Which he shed (poured in some translations) on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

A being, especially an equal being would not be poured out by another. Jesus and the Father don’t get poured out

Spirit: it & He

He:

John 14.17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 16.13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

It:

Numbers 11.17

And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Numbers 11.25

And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

John 1.32

And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Romans 8.16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Peter1.11

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The way one can rectify sometimes using He and sometimes using it, is that you can refer to a part of someone, like a hand and say “It” referring to the hand, or you say “he” referring to the person to whom it belongs.

Notice in the text below that wisdom is referred to as a female. Is Wisdom a being , or creature of some kind?

Proverbs 3.13-18

Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. .14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. .15

She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. 17Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her

Spirit likened to wind or breath

Job 27.3

All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 34.14

If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

Isaiah 42.5

Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

John 3.8

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 20.22

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

The Holy Spirit is the breath of Jesus

Spirit = Mind

1 Corinthians 2.16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Philippians 2.5

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Spirit of God & spirit of man likened

1 Corinthians 2.10

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 2.11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

2.12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Another example of how we are made in God’s image. Our spirit/mind is likened to God’s Spirit/mind, only much inferior to His

God is Spirit

John 4.24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Baptize in whose name

Matthew 28.19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2.38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8.12

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

.

Acts 8.16

(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts10.48

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19.5

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

See http://apostolic-voice.org/tracts/formula.htm

and

http://www.spiritandtruthministry.com/BaptismalFormula.html



Matthew 28:19 is the ONLY place I can find in the Bible telling us to use the threefold name. There is NO evidence that anyone in the Bible ever baptized in the threefold name. Every example of baptizing in a name is Jesus’ name only.

We are told to pray/ask in Jesus’ name, do miracles, heal, give a cup of water, speak, command people as well as evil spirits, and be justified, all in the name of Jesus only.

“But what about…”

Matthew 28:19, verses referring to the Spirit as He, and Mary being conceived of the Holy Spirit have already been covered

Genesis 1.2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There is nothing here that suggests that the Spirit is a separate being. It says, “Spirit of God”

Genesis 1.26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The word “us” is plural, but plural does no necessarily mean more than two.

Matthew 3.16

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 3.17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 4.1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

The Spirit of God descending like a dove and leading Jesus into the wilderness does not make it a separate being

John 14.16

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Keep reading! The Spirit of Truth and the Comforter is JESUS

14.17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 14.18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

1 John 5.7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

If this were true it could be proof that there is a trinity. Erasmus added this verse to the Bible in the 16th century. It is not in earlier manuscripts. Look in any Bible commentary.

http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/1jo05v07.htm

In summary:

There are only two divine beings: God the Father and the only begotten Son of God

Jesus said, “my Father is Greater than I”, has given life to the Son, has “taught me”, and “Sent Me”

The Father is the God of Jesus:

The one Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and of Jesus

Our one Intercessor and Mediator is Jesus

The Spirit, the Mind of God is poured out and breathed on us

We are told to pray, do miracles, cast out demons, and be baptized in the name of Jesus. Only one verse would seem to contradict those commands, Matthew 28:19

4 comments:

Gordon said...

I would like to comment on John 14:16,17. These two verses lifted out of the context certainly appear to say that "another" comforter, the spirit of truth would be sent to be with them forever. However if read in context of the proceeding and following verses the truth becomes clear. In v.1 Jesus says, "...ye believe in God, believe also in me." This tells us who we are to believe in. In v.6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." This one verse is profound, it sumerizes the entire gospel in just 18 words, Jesus is the way unto the Father there is not 'another' way, Jesus is the truth, therefore the spirit of truth is His spirit,Jesus is the life, and when we have His life indwelling in us, the life of Him who was touched by our infirmaties,and yet without sin, then we have life eternal. When Jesus says "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me", He is either telling the truth or He is telling a lie. So do we have access to God through "another" or is Jesus the way, the mediator (1Tim 2:5). Read also verses 9-12 and see the beautiful relationship of the Father and Son and verses 13-15 and see our relationship to the Father through the Son. Now lets look at the verses following the versesthat were in question; v.18"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." Who does Jesus say will come to you? Himself not another.

Pastor Kevin said...

I am excited that both of you are getting in to your Bibles to study this subject, and I am sure you are studying other subjects as well.

Here are some things to consider:

In Hebrew the word for God is "elohim" (pronounced eloheem). It is in the plural form. The singular form is "el" and can be found in many Bible names such as Daniel (my God is judge), or Bethel (house of God), etc. In the Hebrew mind God was one God (Deut. 6:4), but was revealed in three persons. For example in the creation account when man was created it says, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." Genesis 1:26. In the creation of the earth the Bible refers to Spirit (Gen. 1:2) and the Son (Col. 1:15-18 & John 1:1-3, 14), and the Father(Heb. 1:2).

As to the personality of the Holy Spirit the Bible always refers to the Spirit as "He" (John 16:13) and "him" never "it".

On my website (www.edenconcepts.org) I have a manuscript called "Studies on the Holy Spirit". The first chapter deals at length with this subject. In that paper I refer to Bible verses that speak of the Holy Spirit being grieved (Eph. 4:31), and other various emotions. If the Spirit were not a person there would be no feelings. In addition the Spirit is said to think, hear, and speak among many other personal characteristics.

Jesus took human form when He came to this world (Phil. 2:5-8). Apparently before that time he was like the Father who is "Spirit" (John 4:24). The Bible does not say "God is a spirit", but "God is Spirit" referring to His nature. So, just because there is no form does not mean there is no person.

Thanks for the opportunity to pipe in here on your blog. Keep up the good work.

Gary Sheidler said...

Pastor Kevin,
I appreciate your feedback
As I mentioned in the blog, plural doesn't necessarily mean three. My brother looked up "elohim" in Strong's Concordance. Here is what it says:
"Strong's Ref. # 430
Romanized 'elohiym
Pronounced el-o-heem'
plural of HSN0433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:
KJV--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty."

I don’t see anything there that even implies three.

Also note:
• There are only two divine beings mentioned in the Bible: Jn 17:3; 1Cor 8:6; 1Tim 2:5
• The Holy Spirit is the mind of God & Jesus. 1 Cor. 2:10, 11; Rm8:9
• The Spirit being grieved doesn’t need to be a separate being. We can all be grieved in spirit. Look again at 1 Cor. 2:10, 11
• My Bible DOES call the Holy Spirit “it” sometimes.

Numbers 11.17
And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Numbers 11.25
And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

John 1.32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Romans 8.16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Peter1.11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Please look at the blog closer. I have never seen anywhere near this much evidence used to prove the Trinity.
I did take a few minutes to look at your site. I do plan to go back and study it in depth later.
Your friend in Christ,
Gary

maxsynergy said...

If Jesus commands us to baptise in the name (note singular) of the Father, Son and The Holy Spirit could it be that all three have the same name? If so would it stand for reason that this name is Jesus? Stay with me...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:1

Then it goes on and says:

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."–John 1:14

So the Word=God and when the Word was made flesh we get the birth of Jesus therefore God=Jesus or in other words God became flesh to reconcile the world to Himself.

But why is this shed in so much mystery?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.—1 TIMOTHY 3:16.

So, it's a mystery on purpose that is the first thing to understand.

Why was it important for God to keep the secret of Godliness a mystery?

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1Cor 2:8

If Satan would have known this he would not have crucified Jesus because Satan would have understood the consequences.

In other words God in His Almighty wisdom kept it a secret so that the moment that Satan would crucify the Spotless Lamb (without Sin) the Law of Sin and Death would not have been broken. But because Satan in his rage decided to crucify our Lord he, unknowingly, defeated Himself as under the law of Sin and Death it's not lawful to punish someone with Death who hath never commited Sin.

That's How the Lord our God Almighty defeated Satan at his own game of death by playing a divine game of Chess.

So Jesus is the name of our God Almighty, He is our King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Read this knowledge back into the scriptures and see if you find a discrepancy...

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15

So God Almighty understanding that we are not able to perceive Him in all His Majestic Glory created an image (a body) so that we could relate to Him. God is forthcoming with our shortfalls "Praise the Lord" and has made provisions for this, from the beginning.

So the Father and the Son truly are one?

Different "Offices" but yes essentially the same.

If any of you are married you will be known as "Spouse" and "Daugther" (by you parents).

Well in God's case He's Almighty which we call "The Father" then we have His form made flesh and call it "The Son: Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" and when he annoints us and comes to live in us (on repentance and confession of Sins recognising what our Lord and Saviour had done for us: Jesus) we receive His Spirit and partake of His Character/Mind and the process of regeneration changes us.

Thought this makes sense it feels strange to think this way especially when praying. I suppose because of force of habit.

My question then: Should we in this case pray to Jesus in Jesus name? or continue to pray to the Father in Jesus name?

So may I ask you to comment and would you please email me at maxsynergy2002#hotmail.com so I know you have responded as won't remember where I am :-)

May God Bless you mightily and Praise The Lord for revealing this golden nugget to Irvin Baxter at Endtime.com who in turn has revealed it to me. In reality we all know that truly the Lord is revealing it to us through His Spirit for without Him we are nothing. Praise our Lord and Saviour for to Him all we Owe. Amen.